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Who's Got the Time?

Last post 07-22-2008, 2:48 PM by The Dragon Rider. 10 replies.
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  •  07-02-2008, 7:26 PM 6823

    Who's Got the Time?

    I noticed this from the ACM newswire and thought I'd post in reference to our summer contest ...

     Who's Got the Time?
    Government Computer News (06/23/08) Vol. 27, No. 15, Jackson, Joab

    The discontinuity between computerized and human timekeeping complicates the continued operation of the Internet and computer networks, which depend on accuracy and precision. "Time is a perfect example of something that needs to be taken out of the realm of human interaction because we don't do it well, and machines do it well," says former Homeland Security Department metadata program manager Michael Daconta. Machines' interaction with time typically takes one of two forms, says Sita architect Stephen Colebourne: Marking a period of time or gauging an interval between events. Demand for more granular levels of accuracy is rising as networks and computers increasingly depend on time, and Internet Engineering Task Force engineers are working to divide time measurements in the Network Time Protocol into even finer chunks. ... Observers say a problem could crop up from computer systems' growing dependency on accurate time measurement, and some researchers have proposed the elimination of the leap second and strict adherence to atomic time as a solution ...

     

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  •  07-02-2008, 9:20 PM 6824 in reply to 6823

    Re: Who's Got the Time?

    Wow, I never really thought about how much computers rely on time but I guess it makes sense since it is/can be such an accurate measurement standard.
    I wonder... do phrogs eat phlies????
  •  07-03-2008, 4:36 AM 6825 in reply to 6823

    Re: Who's Got the Time?

    I tried quickly to search out on the net an experiment that is -  if my memory serves me well...an atomic clock was put on a jet plane and the exact same clock was put on the ground. After the plane had travelled somewhere, somewhat; It turned out that the clock on the ground was faster than the one on the plane. Proving a point that the faster you travel the slower time becomes...!
    TomDad. Tom is my son...and I'm his Dad. So we are TomDad Software.
  •  07-03-2008, 7:52 AM 6826 in reply to 6825

    Re: Who's Got the Time?

    Here you go http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/airtim.html

    Here's a fun app too http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/hotsciencetwin/ - if you've never seen the Einsteins big idea Nova I really recommend it.


    Managed DirectX and XNA ? Check out http://www.thezbuffer.com
  •  07-03-2008, 9:21 AM 6827 in reply to 6826

    Re: Who's Got the Time?

    Thanks Zman I was trying to be 25 years old again and now I'm 1653 or something...cool...thanks...I think...!


    TomDad. Tom is my son...and I'm his Dad. So we are TomDad Software.
  •  07-03-2008, 4:30 PM 6829 in reply to 6826

    Re: Who's Got the Time?

    Very interesting find, Zman...

    Quote from http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/hotsciencetwin/:

    >>

    Atomic clocks are extremely accurate clocks that can measure tiny amounts of time—billionths of a second. In 1971, scientists used these clocks to test Einstein's ideas. One atomic clock was set up on the ground, while another was sent around the world on a jet traveling at 600 mph. At the start, both clocks showed exactly the same time.

    What happened when the clock flown around the world returned to the spot where the other clock was? As Einstein had predicted in a general way, the clocks no longer showed the same time—the clock on the jet was behind by a few billionths of a second. Why such a small difference? Well, 600 mph is fast but still just the tiniest fraction of the speed of light. To see any significant differences in time, you'd have to be traveling many millions of miles an hour faster.

    <<

    End quote

    Such an experiment is rather difficult to comprehend - How can time go faster for you but not for me? It defies all logic and reason. Even with the vast amounts of data that support the theory, I remain skeptical. Such experiments could be rigged, eg. someone could manually set the clock's readings during the flight. 

    Much of Einstein's Theory of Relativity remains a mystery to me. A lot of it cannot be explained, because we do not yet possess the tools and technological advances necessary. Most of his other theories were correct, such as E=MC², and all of them are very interesting, especially his Theory of Relativity.

    I read a very good brief on it* during my science course a while ago. It had to do with the how mass, space, gravity are interlinked and basically described gravity as a "dent" in space, much like what you get if you place a heavy book on a couch cushion. As far as the planets are concerned, they are traveling in a straight line**, but in reality the sun's mass is creating a round dent is space so that they are constantly spinning around it. I don't actually know how much of this theory is correct, but the first part makes sense if you have taken even the most bare-bones physics course***.

    *Actually, only a small part of the part that deals with gravity. The Theory is big...

    **This is actually true. At any given moment in time ( as in, a screenshot of real life, a single frame of video, kind of moment in time ) any given object's velocity is in fact a straight line ( a LOT like what you do with Vectors ). A basic rule of physics is that an object will continue to travel in a straight line until acted upon by an outside force. In this case, the sun's gravitational pull is that outside force, and it is just strong enough to make the planets travel in circles ( ellipses, technically ) around the sun.

    *** See above, "A basic rule of physics is that an object will continue to travel in a straight line until acted upon by an outside force.". I don't know how many physics courses teach this, but my bare-bones one did.

  •  07-07-2008, 8:52 AM 6840 in reply to 6829

    Re: Who's Got the Time?

    The Dragon Rider:

    Such an experiment is rather difficult to comprehend - How can time go faster for you but not for me? It defies all logic and reason. Even with the vast amounts of data that support the theory, I remain skeptical. Such experiments could be rigged, eg. someone could manually set the clock's readings during the flight. 

    Whilst I agree its very hard to comprehend - these experiments have been done multiple times by many different people and the results are 100% predictable based on the theories of relativity. Unless you subscribe to conspiracy theories (discussion of which I will remove from here) then I can assure you that nothing is rigged. We are conditioned to see time in one way when Einstein saw it see it in another - this is part of the genius of being a scientist that breaks new ground.

    Don't forget even genius's can make mistakes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant#General_relativity (though the story goes that he was never actually happy with his solution at the time as was glad when it became apparent that he had messed up).

     


    Managed DirectX and XNA ? Check out http://www.thezbuffer.com
  •  07-07-2008, 12:29 PM 6848 in reply to 6840

    Re: Who's Got the Time?

    ZMan:

     Unless you subscribe to conspiracy theories then I can assure you that nothing is rigged.

    Don't worry, I used my own head for that one. I generally try not to subscribe to anything.

     

    We are conditioned to see time in one way when Einstein saw it see it in another - this is part of the genius of being a scientist that breaks new ground.

    Makes sense to me. Look at these other great discoveries, such as The World Is Not Flat and The Germ. At the time of the discovery, everyone was conditioned to see the world as a flat plane and health problems as bad luck and/or angry deities( or other causes ). Today we know that the world is a sphere and that germs are the cause of illness. Because of this we have many great advantages that our ancestors did not, such as transcontinental flight/shipping and highly effective medicine. Who knows what great leaps will be made by mankind because of Einstein's discovery?

  •  07-07-2008, 12:54 PM 6850 in reply to 6848

    Re: Who's Got the Time?

    The Dragon Rider:
    Look at these other great discoveries, such as The World Is Not Flat and The Germ. .....Today we know that the world is a sphere and that germs are the cause of illness.

    Interestingly enough the whole 'the world is flat thing' is mostly an urban myth at least in regrds to how long ago people discovered and/or belived it. When Columbus set off to the new world there was no fear that he would fall off the end - the greeks had most of it worked out in the 300BC era. The history of the flat earth is quite fascinating - wikipedia has a nice summary  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_earth

    Bacteria is another great example too - scientists at the time worked out that there was something there long before they ever actually saw them. In this case it was a great example of theory eventually proving observation. Whereas in the Einstein case the theriy came first becuase observing the time dilation effect took some quite advanced technology.


    Managed DirectX and XNA ? Check out http://www.thezbuffer.com
  •  07-07-2008, 1:01 PM 6851 in reply to 6848

    Re: Who's Got the Time?

    I just like the simple fact that the faster you travel the younger you remain! If only I could afford a Bugatti Veyron...!


    TomDad. Tom is my son...and I'm his Dad. So we are TomDad Software.
  •  07-22-2008, 2:48 PM 6916 in reply to 6850

    Re: Who's Got the Time?

    OK ZMan, you knocked me flat. My arguments were rather flimsy, like a pizza that has too much cheese...
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